Right to Fair Trial? National Expert Exposes Serious Concerns in Courts All Across America
A national expert on the right to counsel explains why overworked, underpaid public defenders and assigned counsel often fail to provide adequate representation, and how Michigan's indigent defense system has begun to improve since 2013.
About This Episode
David Carroll is a nationally recognized expert in court system reform and the delivery of good counsel services. He works with the Sixth Amendment Center to ensure that people accused of crimes have access to adequate legal representation.
In this episode of Open Mike, David tells Mike about the Michigan Justice system’s recent improvements after a report that his organization made on the state. They also discuss the inherent problem of bail and how court-appointed lawyers are too overworked to provide good counsel. Tune in to this insightful episode to learn about the problems with our criminal justice system and what needs to be done to fix it.
Show Notes
- Introducing today’s guest, David Carroll
- What is the Sixth Amendment Center?
- Bad lawyering is a common cause for wrongful conviction
- Let’s talk about Michigan, how are we doing here?
- Can you talk about Wayne County’s Neighborhood Defender services?
- Wayne County fixed their system after a report by the Sixth Amendment center
- Do judges take claims of ineffective council seriously?
- Over 80% of people charged with felonies get government funded council
- Watch Mike’s conversation with Professor Primus here
- Watch Mike’s first interview with Kenny here and the follow up interview here
- “People can’t see the injustices around them”
- David encourages listeners to watch what happens in a real courtroom
- Financial conflict of interest in payment of attorneys in Wayne County
- Going to trial is not advantageous for court-appointed lawyers
- Wayne County is working to fix this
- What can people waiting for their trial do to help themselves?
- They would need to find a new attorney or contact the judge
- People who can’t post bail are more likely to plead guilty
- People sitting in jail are using taxpayer money
- Why are people allowed to have their bail set without an attorney present?
- Over 90% of the Bail Project’s clients show up to court
- David has seen Mike’s podcast with Kenny Wyniemko
- Have you seen Just Mercy yet?
- Check out the Sixth Amendment Center’s website
FAQs
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What is the Sixth Amendment Center?
It’s a national, nonpolitical nonprofit set up about eight years before the interview to give policymakers a place to learn what they need to do to fulfill the Sixth Amendment, to get evaluation services, and to help them help poor people facing the potential of jail time.
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How many cases should a public defender realistically handle in a year?
David Carroll says national standards say a felony attorney should handle no more than 150 cases in a single year, but national experts, including him, think that number is outdated and should be well below it; some of the best public defender offices have caseload limits of 40 or 50. His study found attorneys at Wayne County’s former contracted public defender office were handling 400 to 600 cases a year.
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What is the Michigan Indigent Defense Commission?
Carroll says his 2007 report on ten Michigan counties was followed by a task force formed by the governor, which led to comprehensive legislative reform creating the Michigan Indigent Defense Commission. The reforms happened in June 2013, but commissioners and staff had to be appointed, counties and cities had to create plans to meet MIDC standards, and money had to be appropriated; he said only in the past year had money finally started going out to local governments.
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What changed in Wayne County's public defender system?
A study Carroll’s organization did for Wayne County, released in April 2018, found the county had flat-funded its contracted public defender office for the prior 16 years, leaving about 16 lawyers handling 400 to 600 cases a year. The county ended that contract, put it out to bid, and selected Neighborhood Defender Services, which has an excellent reputation in Harlem. Carroll said he didn’t know the exact numbers but believed the office had almost tripled its lawyers.
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How were assigned defense attorneys paid in Wayne County, and why was that a problem?
Carroll says his organization’s study found Wayne County paid assigned lawyers by the event: about $40 for a jail visit, payable only once, and a single fee of about $100 for all trial preparation, with most paid events happening in court. On average a felony attorney earned about $450 per case, so he says attorneys learned that to make money they had to be in court moving cases as fast as possible.
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